Gorilla vs Lion vs Bear: Who Wins? | John Danaher and Lex Fridman

who wins<br>in a fight to the death<br>or maybe a uh in a sport competition<br>setting but let's go with a fight to the<br>death uh a grizzly bear<br>a Silverback Gorilla<br>and maybe a lion or tiger an African<br>lion or uh one of the flavors of tiger<br>I don't know who you think is more<br>ferocious what are the parameters to<br>consider here maybe I can throw a few<br>out and maybe you can give me<br>some thoughts about how much of these<br>parameters matter so first of all<br>intelligence<br>I do believe the gorilla is the most<br>intelligent I've did research for this<br>as you can imagine<br>[Laughter]<br>with Joe Rogan uh the the expert advisor<br>to this very podcast on this very topic<br>is indeed Joe Rogan yes uh so in<br>captivity guerrillas have been<br>documented to show complex emotions from<br>family bonds the ability to use tools<br>and to be able to reason about the past<br>and the future that's impressive so that<br>that's something that at least in<br>captivity the other animals have not<br>been able to do they already sound much<br>more advanced than I am<br>um<br>yeah so<br>that's intelligence then there is weight<br>I think that's something that you think<br>of at first uh the lion let's go with<br>the big ones that I took notes Here 550<br>pounds for big lion that's exceptionally<br>large like most male lines are around<br>450 pounds that's an exceptional Beast<br>then<br>thank you<br>um the the tiger can be larger than that<br>yeah much much larger<br>so we got the grizzly bear which is<br>probably the biggest of the bunch at uh<br>the large ones get to uh 1500 pounds<br>correct me some of this numbers I<br>believe most Grizzlies around a thousand<br>pounds big big beast I was looking up<br>the biggest but I didn't want to do the<br>biggest ever<br>I just wanted the big like the top of<br>the range because there's always the<br>range you can put it in a roughly double<br>that of even a very big lion<br>of course how that weight is used is<br>very important uh so there's also things<br>which I find is interesting as Anaconda<br>would just let me throw that in there<br>because there is 200 pounds what I<br>really like about that is it's not just<br>the way it's the form factor and I think<br>out of all of these the ancana is the<br>most<br>non-standard form factor which I totally<br>agree with that yeah it's like the the<br>uh the Knight on the chessboard it comes<br>in from a completely different angle so<br>we got that we got also uh<br>a strength in which could be measured in<br>ability to carry stuff so this was<br>surprising to me I did look into this<br>carefully the grizzly bear at a thousand<br>or 1500 pounds can only carry at most<br>its body weight which is a lot<br>but a gorilla can carry 10 times his<br>body weight a gorilla can lift over 2<br>000 kilograms that's over four thousand<br>pounds and gorillas themselves and adult<br>male weighs in around 350 to 400 400<br>pounds yes that's so I like how in this<br>particular place where I found this to 2<br>000 kilograms is as heavy as 30 average<br>humans so gorillas<br>30 humans so that's carrying string and<br>then of course uh bite force because<br>that's one of the weapons in question<br>here so agree now this is really<br>surprising to me I the gorilla has won<br>me over through this by the way uh<br>intelligence I'm gonna sucker for<br>intelligence but the gorilla bite force<br>is the highest of all these with 1300<br>PSI bear a second with 1200 PSI tiger is<br>uh a third I think tiger and lions<br>they're with a thousand PSI that's<br>comparable and a bear is uh anywhere<br>from 900 to 1000 PSI they're close but<br>gorilla I would not have expected now<br>that's gorilla is not a carnivore but<br>apparently you choose it's mostly it's<br>grassy stuff right but it like<br>it's difficult to explain why it has<br>such a powerful bite and it also of<br>course has very large in size of teeth<br>as well as chewing teeth so um also no<br>neck yeah<br>so because Nick begins at the top of his<br>head and this goes down to the shoulders<br>well a lot of the way they use their<br>teeth<br>all of these animals they the the<br>ultimate kill is to go for the neck the<br>bite in the neck I don't know exactly<br>why that is probably<br>has to do<br>why is that because it's a very strong<br>controlled position not just that it's a<br>is it the same as Jiu-Jitsu you think<br>because they get to also choke them out<br>it's very much in line with you just<br>like lions are famous for using<br>strangulation as their primary method of<br>killing they they get a hold of the neck<br>and hold until<br>um the animal drops plus uh claws<br>I believe the tiger and the bear use<br>their claws and the lion too the lion<br>right and the lion uh<br>this is something that the gorilla<br>doesn't do<br>and uh Anaconda obviously doesn't yeah<br>so what what do you think how do we<br>think about this also there is uh I'm<br>just not letting you talk apparently<br>there's uh levels of aggression in terms<br>of these are also very important<br>considerations yeah what what is um all<br>the considerations you've raised are<br>very important and we we would have to<br>address them if we're going to go<br>through this topic<br>um first things first<br>whenever you go into a discussion of<br>this kind there's<br>a kind of natural impression that we all<br>have as to which one would be the most<br>formidable<br>um<br>and<br>it's important that you become rather<br>skeptical of your first intuitions<br>because they're often very misleading<br>just as every boy thinks his father is<br>the strongest man in the world<br>and then when he grows up into adulthood<br>he realizes<br>this father was not even close to being<br>the strongest man in the world it's not<br>because<br>of anything other than an experience to<br>a boy his father seemed overwhelmingly<br>strong he literally can't even imagine<br>if anyone else being stronger than that<br>so<br>naively he thinks his father is the<br>strongest man in the world so too in our<br>relationship with animals<br>when we look at a Silverback Gorilla it<br>just looks overwhelmingly strong to us<br>to a degree which is almost absurd like<br>um<br>you picture the greatest combat athletes<br>that Humanity has ever produced the<br>prime Mike Tyson Gordon Ryan for<br>grappling<br>they would literally be torn limb from<br>limb by an angry gorilla it wouldn't<br>even be remotely competitive and so<br>there's a sense in which we look at them<br>in awe because of what they could do to<br>us<br>but that can be very misleading and just<br>as a boy<br>looks at his father as like the Pinnacle<br>of strength you can't necessarily from a<br>position of inexperience and weakness<br>look at a given animal and say oh that<br>must be the toughest animal in the<br>animal kingdom there's levels to this<br>game and<br>um I think we can point out that the<br>gorilla ultimately would be pretty low<br>on those levels<br>push back to this analysis because the<br>data we don't have much data on this we<br>don't have we actually have slightly<br>more than you think I believe oh boy<br>well it's anecdotal I feel like it's out<br>of context so these species don't use<br>this is not MMA they don't do<br>inter-species fighting often<br>yeah but there are some ways of looking<br>at this which can take this already<br>interesting question and make it a lot<br>more interesting<br>um<br>first we've seen that intuitions aren't<br>to be trusted so if intuitions aren't to<br>be trusted or what is to be trusted here<br>well I've always believed that there are<br>three<br>General<br>elements that determine<br>what level of success or failure anyone<br>will experience in combat and this is<br>true both for individuals and for groups<br>and even all the way out to Nations<br>um<br>the first is what are your skills the<br>second is what are your physical and<br>mental attributes so it's skills<br>attributes those are the two primary<br>ones and there's a third<br>which is your experience in using those<br>skills and attributes and real world<br>scenarios okay so whenever two we'll<br>start with two humans when two humans<br>get into a fight ask yourself what is<br>their skill set<br>what are their physical and mental<br>attributes and what is their experience<br>and using those in real world<br>applications and that will give you your<br>first<br>look at uh okay who's going to be the<br>more successful<br>um<br>then in addition to those<br>three General elements there's also four<br>more specific elements<br>what is the ability<br>of the combatants to initiate combat<br>because initiation is a big deal in<br>fighting the one who sees the enemy<br>first and can create Ambush conditions<br>or<br>initiate compact combat in an area or a<br>Terrain which is favorable to them this<br>is huge in determining the uh the<br>outcome of battles<br>second<br>not only is initiation important but<br>disengagement is important a lot of<br>battles don't go according to plan and<br>so your ability to disengage at will and<br>break off and away from a battle is key<br>to success so initiation and<br>disengagement are big<br>the third big element<br>what is your ability to end a fight<br>okay do you have an efficient method of<br>ending conflict<br>without that<br>the conflict could go on to a point<br>where you no longer have the ability to<br>uh to continue it if you have some<br>succinct method of finishing this is<br>huge in combat and determining winner or<br>loser so both from a winning and a<br>losing position yeah so if you don't<br>have one there's a much higher chance<br>you'll lose but if you have an ability<br>to finish an opponent in the conflict uh<br>reliably this is<br>very very important in determining<br>success or failure<br>and third is your ability to endure a<br>conflict longer than the person you're<br>engaged in okay so engage with sorry and<br>so you get these four more specific<br>elements now do you have the ability to<br>initiate contact at will do you have the<br>ability to break contact and disengage<br>at will<br>do you have the ability to finish your<br>opponent efficiently and do you have the<br>ability to endure longer than your<br>opponent does if you have all four of<br>those<br>that's huge for for combat that probably<br>applies to human on human everything<br>military conflict everything even all<br>the way up to Nations<br>um<br>also ask yourself<br>what are the most efficient<br>methods of combat<br>across the globe across all species all<br>times<br>etc etc and you'll see that ultimately<br>they always come down to<br>three things<br>the first is concentration of force<br>okay one of the most successful<br>combat strategies of all time is the<br>ability to take<br>concentrated Force against a zone of<br>weakness in your opponent and if you can<br>do this<br>you will often break through to a point<br>of vulnerability attack that<br>vulnerability in a way where your<br>opponent cannot respond and cannot<br>recover from that vulnerable point being<br>broken do a high amount of damage with<br>Precision yes so this is one of the<br>great combat strategies in across the<br>animal kingdom across human history Etc<br>the second would be Ambush tactics<br>if you can Ambush an opponent with the<br>element of surprise this is huge for<br>success in combat they're almost all of<br>the truly successful Predators on this<br>planet are Ambush Predators<br>the ability to get off to a good start<br>in a way where opponents simply can't<br>recover is huge for combat are we<br>allowing ambush in our discussion<br>because humans would call this cheating<br>perhaps yes we would and<br>humans are pretty damn good at it too so<br>um uh and then the third is endurance<br>okay some uh<br>[Music]<br>species some people uh humans actually<br>are pretty good at this<br>um use endurance as a weapon and they<br>simply wear an opponent down over time<br>and break them and internationally this<br>can be done economically<br>um through numbers etc etc and uh and<br>you can destroy someone with just sheer<br>endurance yeah a lot of words throughout<br>human history has been Siege Warfare<br>yeah and so when you ask yourself okay<br>which one of these animals are going to<br>uh be the most successful in combat ask<br>yourself well there's these three<br>Elements which tend to determine<br>Successful Failure and warfare<br>um which animals exhibit these three<br>principles the best and we'll discuss<br>this but as far as um<br>uh generalities go uh whenever you ask a<br>question who will win between a and b<br>ask yourself<br>in terms of the light of what we've just<br>discussed<br>what is their skill set<br>what are the attributes both mental and<br>physical what is their experience in<br>utilizing these in real world situations<br>and then the four uh more technical<br>elements who gets to initiate contact<br>can you break off contact at any given<br>time uh what is your endurance can you<br>keep going uh longer than your opponent<br>does so a skill set I wonder if a big<br>component of that of how much practice<br>there is off off the battle exactly so<br>how much quote unquote you would<br>probably call it play<br>like play fighting let's start going<br>through our animals okay when you look<br>at the gorilla<br>you will see immediately that almost<br>every experience a gorilla has of combat<br>is theatrical<br>yes they don't engage in killing things<br>they scare rival males away in order to<br>gain ownership of females but there is<br>almost no<br>uh intra species death and those<br>conflicts they're almost entirely<br>theatrical they have for example<br>enormous<br>canine teeth but there is no record of<br>them ever being used in combat<br>um<br>they appear to be used purely for<br>intimidation purposes<br>there's a sense in which they have this<br>tremendous appearance and they have<br>tremendous potential they they really do<br>have freakish levels of strength<br>in in many different ways<br>and yet the actual track record of using<br>it is negligible it's so strange that<br>Evolution will develop such as a sewing<br>machine like they're bite force just<br>makes no sense with regard to what they<br>actually eat I think well no I I think<br>that even the presence of canines<br>doesn't make a lot of sense they're not<br>going to use them what are they it comes<br>down to this idea their big thing is<br>intimidation so as a show you wanna<br>uh fake it and don't care if you ever<br>make it because fake is good enough<br>given that particular Dynamic now let's<br>contrast that with<br>a male lion<br>'s<br>take on the biggest meanest<br>toughest animals in the most competitive<br>killing War<br>on planet Earth which is Continental<br>Africa<br>um and they<br>literally just take I mean occasionally<br>they lose but<br>it's rare and they take out everything<br>just in order to eat they have to take<br>down wildebeest cape buffalo they they<br>keep Buffalo are incredibly dangerous<br>beasts just by themselves and yet Lions<br>regularly take them down<br>um occasionally large numbers of lions<br>will even swarm elephant and over 12<br>hour periods take down elephant on some<br>occasions this is all on videos it's not<br>just speculation so they just have a<br>level of combat experience which no<br>other animal<br>if I were to also project so the the<br>Eastern European style of wrestling<br>where they spend so many hours on the<br>map they really value the number of<br>hours on the mat at play from childhood<br>the Lions probably for my extensive<br>watching videos on YouTube they seem to<br>play with each other yeah for fun a lot<br>and I guess even really helps you see it<br>you don't interact you don't play with<br>other gorillas you have<br>like you're more spending a lot more<br>time around<br>uh the opposite sex yeah so yeah I mean<br>even Lions uh when they they fight each<br>other the mortality rate when lions<br>fight each other male lions for<br>ownership of a pride<br>is very very high much much higher than<br>I believe any other species on Earth<br>um they're almost always fights to the<br>depth for the simple reason that when a<br>male lion loses control of a pride the<br>First Act the new lion does is to kill<br>the genetic offspring of the previous<br>male lion so when a lion fights another<br>male lion when one male lion fights<br>another it's not just a fight for his<br>own life it's a fight for his genetic<br>offspring and failure means not only<br>does he die<br>all his offspring dies and so when they<br>fight the implications are so deep it's<br>it's like a fight for your not just you<br>but your your DNA<br>um<br>most male lions have very short runs at<br>the top to get<br>killed or run off by by other Lions<br>um<br>now<br>this kind of harsh combat experience no<br>other animal can claim to have this<br>between what they kill to eat and what<br>they have to do to defend their their<br>stake and a pride<br>no other animal fights like that<br>um<br>they just bring a level of depth to<br>combat which is unmatched in the animal<br>kingdom they also have some other<br>elements too that they get to they get<br>the luxury because of their social<br>nature of taking more risks than other<br>animals like a tiger hunts alone so if<br>it gets injured it's a big problem it<br>can die if it's injured a lion can fight<br>uh cape buffalo get injured and be<br>covered by the other lions for food<br>until it recovers so it learns to take<br>risks and it's not afraid to go out and<br>fight very very hard whereas other<br>animals tend to shy away from risk<br>because they're solitary bears are<br>solitary that tigers are solitary so<br>they learned from an early age not to<br>take the big risks to go to a certain<br>level and stop if I could push back so<br>that's that's aggression and risk-taking<br>that's a plus for the lion but to defend<br>the gorilla because he says skill set<br>they are of all of those the only ones<br>that use tools I've shown to use tools<br>we didn't say anything about weapons a<br>gorilla could in theory pick up a rock<br>and it does have the like the force the<br>power and the capabilities to do a lot<br>of damage so it doesn't have the<br>practice it doesn't have the experience<br>but don't you think<br>if if a gorilla's back is to the wall so<br>you put them in a situation of it is<br>life and death<br>for both The Lion and the gorilla don't<br>you don't you value intelligence at<br>least a little bit here<br>um there's a reason why humans this is<br>like evidence that you know humans have<br>spread all across the world while being<br>kind of weak<br>why okay intelligence is a huge huge<br>asset humanity is positive proof that it<br>is the most important asset but it takes<br>time in order to<br>work is Magic it took humans<br>200 000 years to go from the bottom of<br>the food chain to the top of the food<br>chain<br>um and gorillas have a lot of work to do<br>before they get to that level uh you<br>said you said in theory gorillas could<br>do this but let's talk about practice<br>now first off there are many documented<br>incidents of leopards killing gorillas<br>that's that's anecdotal evidence no it's<br>not there's a bunch of bitch-ass<br>gorillas walking around we know this<br>we're asking not anecdotal it was<br>observed by a group of people who<br>specialized in in observing gorillas<br>over a 12-year period a regularly found<br>gorilla toes in lipidification<br>um they also saw that over a certain<br>period some 36 gorillas have been killed<br>and evidence strongly suggested leopard<br>predation was the reason apparently the<br>leopards had figured out that there is a<br>femoral artery<br>and gorilla's legs and we're doing a<br>move which from the sounds of it sounds<br>a lot like a baron bolo where they were<br>spinning underneath gorillas and biting<br>the femoral artery and then disengaging<br>and watching them bleed out and die and<br>then eating them now a leopard<br>is no match for a lion it the only<br>defense it has to align is to run up a<br>tree it cannot engage with a lion on<br>anything close to equal terms it may<br>seem like we're going out of tangents<br>but we're not just because of the foot<br>the attack of the artery and the foot<br>is there weaknesses that the lion might<br>have of that what I'm saying is I I know<br>it's not equivalent but the the fact<br>that a leopard does so well against even<br>fully grown male gorillas<br>makes you should make you rather<br>suspicious of a gorilla's ability to<br>fight a lion<br>fair enough let's also go further into<br>let's talk about concentration of force<br>the lion has the quintessential<br>concentration of force which is fangs<br>and claws<br>the gorilla is the exact opposite it<br>can't even make a fist<br>and so it can only throw open-handed<br>slaps and grab things so it it has no<br>ability with its with its arms to<br>concentrate force in any kind of<br>efficient way when a lion or a tiger<br>story or a bear for that matter swings<br>at you it's got four Claws from four to<br>six inches long it's like four blades<br>going into you they can retract their<br>claws so they're always sharp but the<br>reach is significantly longer for the<br>gorilla<br>the length of the the ability to engage<br>with speed on the part of the the cat is<br>is far far greater and also mobility and<br>to feed the bipedal nature of a gorilla<br>the the the temporary Barbados this is<br>the bear has the same no impact humans<br>are bipedal and lions kill 240 humans a<br>year on average<br>so okay okay okay what about bear now<br>beer is a difference for all the same<br>things that a lion has<br>the claws the teeth has more weight it<br>has more strength has more power<br>okay now this is an interesting question<br>okay you get a fully grown North<br>American Grizzly versus an African lion<br>this is an interesting fact I also have<br>questions about polar bears it's unclear<br>to me because they're big they're bigger<br>in every way than than a Grizzly yes but<br>they probably don't get the experience<br>in the practice yeah also they have a<br>much more limited set of uh animals that<br>they they Prey Upon so pretty sure<br>Grizzly is going to be tough to beat as<br>far as Top beer goes<br>um<br>um a grizzly bear<br>I believe would be a formidable<br>adversary even for a for a male lion<br>um that literally twice their size<br>they have an ability to get away from<br>strangleholds by standing up on two legs<br>so the Lion's primary method of killing<br>which is this strangle would be very<br>difficult for them to employ upon a bear<br>um<br>interestingly the Bear's primary method<br>of killing is to pin it pins animals and<br>then just slowly eats them while they're<br>still alive they have a rather barbaric<br>means of killing lions are much more<br>Humane in the way they kill<br>um<br>I what I see is the primary problem is<br>that neither one would ever be able to<br>kill the other uh that finishing thing<br>yeah they both fail on the finishing<br>criteria<br>the lion would not be able to strangle a<br>bear even in the best case scenario<br>where he got his teeth into the neck the<br>bear can stand up and and presumably<br>Shake him off<br>um uh the uh the the the the bear would<br>never be able to pin a lion for long<br>enough to better hold it down and and<br>slowly Maul it over time the way it can<br>with an elk or a caribou so I don't<br>believe either would be able to finish<br>the other it would just become exhausted<br>it would be it would come down to<br>endurance now that's where things get<br>interesting because the bear is much<br>more of an endurance Hunter and the line<br>is much more of an ambush Hunter lines<br>quick explosive much higher top speed<br>they've got a top speed of 45 to 50<br>miles an hour a beer can do up to 35 but<br>it can run for long periods at up to 25<br>miles an hour very long periods they're<br>mostly a uh an endurance Hunter they<br>just run<br>uh elk and moose down until they're<br>exhausted and then pin them and kill<br>them<br>so if it came down to endurance<br>might go the way of the beer if there<br>were if they were caged up together<br>however there is very strong evidence<br>from both hunters and video<br>which shows on many occasions beer is<br>being chased off by<br>cougar<br>and Wolverines<br>now what's that that's fear what is that<br>what do you mean chased off uh if they<br>fight over uh uh meat which uh and say<br>for example the cougar has killed<br>something and the bear wants to meet the<br>cougar will come there risk aversion<br>exactly exactly the Bears are<br>risk-averse what I would say is this the<br>beers are very very powerful in their<br>domain but they don't have the battle<br>experience of a lion they don't take on<br>animals as tough as a cape buffalo they<br>don't take on elephant what the toughest<br>thing it would probably take on probably<br>a a bull moose and uh a bull moose is a<br>formidable animal but it's nothing like<br>a cape buffalo it's nothing like an<br>elephant an elephant or a hippopotamus<br>so what I would suggest is this<br>in the wild I don't believe either one<br>is capable of killing the other but I do<br>believe based on video evidence of<br>cougars and Wolverines chasing off bears<br>that a lion would provide<br>enough threat<br>in a brief fight that a bear would back<br>away if you put them in a cage however<br>where neither one could back away I<br>would slightly favor the bear<br>based on the fact that it neither one<br>can kill each other would come down to<br>endurance you mean like an octagon yeah<br>that's got to be the next UFC by the way<br>beer versus<br>things change Joe Rogan's a big fan of<br>the idea of fighting in a stadium for<br>humans fighting in a stadium<br>um so in the stadium of bear I would I<br>would slightly favor a beer now I still<br>think that the lion would have a chance<br>but I would favor the Bear in a berry<br>match<br>um some of the best evidence we have for<br>animal versus animal fights come from<br>the ancient Romans who actually used to<br>put animals in gladiatorial combat and<br>um<br>they for example had several incidents<br>where they wrote about tiger vs lion<br>uh conflict and uh in one famous passage<br>they described a lion getting destroyed<br>by a a female tiger<br>um so there's there's some evidence to<br>suggest that they had more expertise of<br>this than we do because they they had a<br>big population of wild animals which<br>they just put to fight each other<br>um unfortunately there's nothing that<br>they wrote about beers versus lion they<br>did talk about uh bears versus bulls uh<br>they did talk about Lions versus Tigers<br>um but they never mentioned bear vs lion<br>so we don't have any evidence for that<br>so we have to be a little bit more<br>speculative now given that bears do get<br>chased off by cougar and cougar is weak<br>compared with a male lion they'll listen<br>to you draw from that by the way I would<br>suggest that is it about the Bears yeah<br>it's more about the bear like in theory<br>a beer should be able to crush a cougar<br>but it seems to be the beer is a scene<br>uh this thing could hurt me so I'm not<br>gonna risk injury and backs away I think<br>it would back away in the wild from a<br>lion but put him in a cage and I<br>slightly favor them the grizzly based on<br>endurance<br>so the final conclusion<br>if you had to just bet everything you<br>owned so you got uh let's say we got the<br>Octagon we bring in a bear<br>now this is like legendary bear okay<br>full grown Grizzly full grown Grizzly<br>but not only that that Grizzly is seeing<br>some [ __ ] what's the most it could have<br>seen a bull moose<br>a caribou that's the toughest opponent<br>has ever had it once no no no no no this<br>one once ran into a pack of other<br>Grizzlies and had to fend and he's got a<br>scarf Grizzlies there's no pack of<br>Grizzlies they're solitary wolves wolves<br>wolves what was a good practice for a<br>bear who attacks a bear that's that's my<br>point Bears don't really live in a<br>competitive environment lines but<br>sometimes it can get desperate as it was<br>a pack of wolves but that pack of wolves<br>is nothing that that's nothing all right<br>fine Lions deal with packs of hyenas<br>okay what was the just imagine over the<br>past hundred years what do you think is<br>the hardest fight<br>that a grizzly bear has been in like<br>somewhere in Alaska we never heard all<br>of a sudden in the middle of the night<br>all you hear is the bear just they<br>didn't really there's there's nothing<br>that does God have been something humans<br>have killed<br>cougars and Wolverines like no that's<br>anecdotal evidence there's got to be one<br>bear there's video footage of it you can<br>watch it yes it's called anecdotal<br>evidence there's got I guarantee you in<br>the dark of the night there was an epic<br>battle of which there's still Legend<br>amongst the Bears in that part of Canada<br>who did it battle in Canada moose are<br>the Bears you don't think they'd go at<br>it yeah bears fight each other but it's<br>largely theatrical they never kill each<br>other when lions fight each other they<br>kill each other all the time<br>like that someone would have seen it by<br>now interesting all right so so you're<br>seeing my point is it just they they<br>they they want to get their feet wet<br>they're giving no credit for gorillas so<br>you're saying lion wins your money's<br>online no I'm saying lion would win in<br>the wild because they they can't kill<br>each other they can't end the fight it's<br>one of our most important criteria<br>um but Lions can almost always initiate<br>the action because they have much better<br>uh uh ability to see at night for<br>example Bears have very average night<br>vision Lions have superb night vision so<br>at night time they can always initiate<br>the fight lions are natural Ambush<br>Predators so it's always going to be<br>able to have the advantage of Ambush<br>um the great advantage that bears have<br>is endurance uh but bears are very<br>risk-averse and they're not used to<br>fighting<br>like the toughest toughest animals the<br>toughest animal they fight is a moose or<br>a caribou these are not not even close<br>to the animals that Lions have to go up<br>against on a regular basis so if<br>somebody wins it's going to be the lion<br>for you I still think that the size and<br>endurance of the bear if they were<br>locked in a cage together I would still<br>favor the beer under those circumstances<br>but in the wild I believe the beer will<br>back away cut it in the cage no time<br>limit you favor the bear what if it's<br>five rounds or five minutes Championship<br>then I would go with a lion because the<br>lion has a huge speed Advantage so it's<br>gonna it's gonna injure it tear it up<br>and uh and do immediate damage like I<br>put it this way if lion and bear fight<br>first 15 minutes I favor the line 100<br>but then as time goes by that size and<br>weight is gonna and endurance is going<br>to have an effect I I'll bring up<br>shortly somebody that's going to<br>probably disagree with you about some<br>things hopefully it's a grizzly bear and<br>it comes in and just eats me<br>oh that would be so epic<br>um making a hell of a podcast I wonder<br>who you would eat first who would look<br>scarier more delicious I'm not sure the<br>black and white could either piss him<br>off he would think you were a penguin<br>is that a good thing or not no good if<br>it was a polar bear maybe it's different<br>um<br>deeply about your uh about athletes you<br>coached about people in your life<br>so I have to ask this question<br>if one of those athletes let's say<br>Gordon Ryan<br>now I was the dictator of the world and<br>this would entertain me so I force you<br>and Gordon to do this uh to fight uh a<br>bear or a lion Gordon has to uh how<br>would you coach him to do it<br>uh to have any chance of winning<br>he goes in empty hand empty-handed you<br>can choose Stadium or<br>um cage<br>Gordon Ryan empty-handed versus a lion<br>you get to choose lion versus bear it's<br>up to you okay my advice would be very<br>simple yeah I would say Gordon you're<br>[ __ ]<br>you're going to die badly<br>choose the lion because it will strangle<br>you to death rather than pin you down<br>and Maul you to death<br>didn't we just talk about audacious<br>goals<br>this is not a question of audacious gold<br>this is a question of minimizing pain so<br>you coach your athletes to quit before<br>the battle has been fought 100 yeah<br>what's he gonna do you don't think<br>there's a technic first of all<br>intelligence so technically what you<br>gotta do a heel hook no no well first of<br>all maybe you kind of do a Double A's or<br>four [ __ ] legs okay what if Gordon<br>gets any starting position he wants oh<br>yeah that's going to be really useful<br>on a thousand pound beer yeah<br>[Music]<br>shaken off he'll get torn off with what<br>like the reaches back he's got four or<br>six inches oh you can't get I wonder<br>what is the reach whatever he touches<br>he's got if it's not a flexible bear<br>so you think there's no control what<br>about like a low like a uh some kind of<br>controlling position from yeah like you<br>said purple like from underneath nothing<br>this discussion is so insane I didn't<br>even know where to begin criticism I<br>don't think you're open-minded we could<br>we could turn this down forget about<br>Gordon fighting a a lion or a bear<br>that's that's completely impossible an<br>adult male chimp will destroy Gordon<br>it's not even a gorilla<br>is more than enough to kill any human on<br>the planet including Gordon Ryan so<br>Gordon Ryan fighting a chimp a good size<br>dead no a thousand times how many times<br>does he win he loses a thousand times<br>it's not even competitive it's not even<br>remotely compared do you think he will<br>disagree<br>no<br>do you think anyone will disagree anyone<br>yeah [ __ ]